Cardinal Avery Dulles is a Jesuit theologian and professor at Fordham University in New York. An internationally known author and lecturer, Cardinal Dulles has authored more than 20 books and has written over 700 articles on theological topics. Many consider him to be the dean of American theologians and he is a strong defender of the papacy. Cardinal Dulles, 86, gathered with the world's cardinals in Rome this April, although he was not eligible to vote in the papal conclave because of his age.

He recently traveled to St. Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula, where he delivered the commencement address during the graduation ceremonies May 14. Afterwards he spoke with The Tidings.

What where the highlights for you of your experience being in Rome for the burial of Pope John Paul II and the installation of Pope Benedict XVI?

There were several highlights. The funeral of John Paul II was a highlight. Just amazing, the crowds and the devotion during the funeral Mass just as far as the eye could see… the devotion that poured out. So many young people came with backpacks and stayed in the streets. They came not only out of admiration, but love of the man. He was a man who was loved by more people than anybody has been loved by before.

The funeral was beautifully conducted, and the homily of then-Cardinal Ratzinger was beautifully done, I thought. Just right for the occasion. It wasn't overblown. It was low-key but very sincere and very direct.

Then there were meetings of the cardinals for ten days, and the Mass for the election of the new pope. Again, Cardinal Ratzinger was the principal celebrant and preacher. He did a beautiful job. A very fine piece of exegesis.

(On April 19) I was in my room around 6 p.m. All these bells started to ring. At first I thought it was the Angelus. Then I realized it was more than the Angelus. I went up to the roof of the Jesuit residence where I was staying and could see the white smoke. Half an hour later, Pope Benedict came out and greeted the people. That was, of course, very exciting.

You mentioned in your commencement address that you think the church is experiencing through all of this a special grace. Can you elaborate on that? What are you seeing and hearing?

The church is not marginal to the world. The world is fascinated by the church, even when they don't believe. They see in the church a continuity and a universality and the strength of faith and a clarity of vision that is not found elsewhere.

I think Catholics who were able to see that more clearly than before and the vital importance of Rome as the center of unity and continuity. The apostolic succession of the Petrine office has been very vividly presented to us during the last two popes.

This has been a moment of grace for many of us.

With the election of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as Pope (Benedict XVI) we have a theologian in the papacy. As a theologian, what do you think of the significance of this? How might his papacy be, because he is a theologian?

I do attach importance to this. Two professors have been made pope in succession. John Paul was a professor of philosophy with a strong theological education and interest. And Cardinal Ratzinger was the reverse, always a theologian first of all, but with a thorough education in philosophy and an understanding of philosophy and he sees the great philosophical problems of today.

So I think he'll be able to articulate that in a way that will show that we don't have to choose relativism. Relativism is taken for granted in the United States generally and in many other countries. In relativism, the only thing that's important is how it seems to me. If it seems to be true or interesting to me and it is to you, then we have something to say. But what's true for you may not be true for me. And then we'll go our merry ways. It's not worth discussing what is really the case. We can't know that. All we know is how things appear.

That's almost taken for granted in many circles today. There are no objective standards of morality. We all have our own private systems of morality which are tolerated as long as there are private. We have to get beyond that for the sake for humanity. Both John Paul II and Benedict XVI say that very clearly, I think. It's important for people to see what the roots of the problems are.

In the commencement address, you said that the dominant culture is hostile to many Christian values here in the United States, because those values are predicated on the pursuit of wealth, pleasure and success, all understood in highly individualistic terms. What words of wisdom would you give to young Catholics and to Catholics in general living in the U.S. who are trying to sort out how to be Catholic and how to be American?

I think you can't really be happy, if you are just trying to be happy. The key to happiness is to dedicate yourself to something greater than yourself, and to find a cause that is worthy of all your devotion.

We have that revealed in Christ. For a pearl of great price, a treasure hidden in the field, you sell everything you have for the sake of this and go away happy. You have to look forward and give everything up to be happy if you find something that is really worthy of your total devotion. The martyrs were happy to their deaths, with smiles on their faces. You can get courage, firmness and purpose in your life if you find something that is beyond yourself. John Paul kept saying, "The human being does not find fulfillment except by giving himself." Give yourself to something that's worth giving yourself to.

I'm not advocating fanaticism. But giving oneself to something that is intrinsically good and worthwhile, I think we have that in Jesus Christ. I think that's where Pope John Paul and Benedict put their emphasis, on the centrality of Christ, "Dominus Iesus" --- Jesus is Lord. That is the fundamental cry of Christians. Everything else about the church is relative to that. He is the center. And you've got to find the center. So many of our Catholics need to be evangelized. They've been catechized but never evangelized.

They haven't gotten the central message delivered with conviction. Jesus Christ died for our justification and rose for our salvation. There's the center of our faith. Without that, everything else becomes drudgery.

You've also said that one of the great blessings of being Catholic is our universality and our unity. At the same time, grace and revelation are important to you and to the church as we confront new questions. There are new questions like bioethics, the scourge of AIDS, and the widening gap between the wealthy and the poor which we have to confront as Catholics. How as Catholics do we navigate the challenge between adhering to our doctrine, tradition and the magisterium and also being open to God's grace and revelation in the present, especially with regards to new things we've never had to face before?

We need the new and the old. We can't just repeat the old. We have to find, in the old, resources for confronting the new. I think we do have them in our heritage of faith. That's why I find so much value in studying the past --- Scriptures, the fathers and doctors of the church. There is so much wisdom there that is in danger of being forgotten.

But we can't just be repeating the past. We have to draw out of that treasure resources for meeting current questions. I don't think anybody accused John Paul II of simply repeating the past. He was confronting present problems in his encyclicals, exhortations and sermons always with an eye to the actual situation in the world and new problems that were arising.

Some of them were very technical. Bioethics requires specialists who study medicine and biology and so forth. But they also have to have a very keen ethical sense, and fortunately we have a number of Catholics in this country and other countries who are experts in this field, and who are doing a very fine job keeping abreast of all the developments in bioethics. Not everyone can be competent in every field. It's a big church and we have people who are experts in many different fields and we have to rely on one another.

How do you hope that ecumenism might continue during this papacy?

I think this pope will continue the work of his predecessor, and really several predecessors --- trying to be very open to increase understanding of our common heritage with other Christians, possibly some reunion. That depends upon their interest as well as our interest, on whether others are interested in coming with us and even dialoguing with us.

Pope Benedict XVI is very responsive. He has worked a lot with Lutherans in Germany. He has kept very much abreast of Anglican-Roman Catholic dialogue and he has participated in a number conferences with the Orthodox… So he is no stranger to this field.

Archbishop William Levada was appointed May 13 to serve as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the first time an American has been appointed to this position. What are some of the challenges he may face?

I've known him a number of years. I congratulate him most heartily on his appointment. He's a very moderate man and very balanced and very objective. He won't be a heresy hunter. At the same time he'll be anxious to preserve the faith and articulate the faith clearly.

There's the issue of resuscitating the neglected sacrament of penance and its relationship to the Eucharist. This may be taken up next October at the Synod of Bishops. It was being discussed in letters of John Paul II. There is a serious problem with sacrilegious Communions. People ought to be in a state of grace and have a clear conscience when they receive Communion. And this does require more use of the sacrament of penance.

The CDF generally reacts to complaints that are made to it. It is not an investigative agency. They are not going all over the world trying to find people who are off base. But they respond to complaints that are sent to them. If they receive a sufficient number of substantive complaints, they will initiate an investigation. A lot will depend on what questions are brought to the CDF.

Can you comment on any of the key issues that were being discussed at the cardinals' meetings in Rome?

I can't divulge what any individual said; that was confidential. But in a general way they were the problems we all sense; the gap between rich and poor is very much felt in the Southern hemisphere where people are living in subhuman conditions. The cardinals from that area support the importance of church teaching on world justice in order to get a better balance.

Militant secularism is an issue, especially in Europe today and other countries which essentially exclude God, at least from public life. They say God has nothing to do with public life, but just simply pretend that the world is autonomous and can solve all its' problems without reference to God.

Persecution in some countries is a factor. And interreligious dialogue is very desirable, but in some cases could lead to compromising the faith in trying to accommodate other religions. Those are a few issues.

Are you working on another book or other writing projects?

I get a lot of invitations and accept too many to do articles for various journals and encyclopedias. I am under contract to do a short book on the magisterium. That's the teaching authority of the church. It's more like a textbook. It's not a major breakthrough book. But I don't find manuals currently available that are suitable for classroom instruction, especially for seminarians and theology students.

The book will be about how do you relate to the magisterium of the church. How do you understand pronouncements from the magisterium, its authority? There are all kinds of degrees and modes of thought and documents that are not very well understood by people. What is the difference between a dogmatic proclamation, a declaration and instruction? The authority of the bishops and the bishops' conference, and the Roman offices? One of my objectives is to explain those kinds of distinctions.